DUI Drysuits

[SubMariner]

Yo, fellow Canuck!

Pearce dove his CF200 for probably the better part of 7 years all over the world.

True, they do take a little longer to dry than the trilams, but they wear like iron and last forever.

However, that being said, don't overlook good Canuck brands like Whites, Brooks, Abyss, or Wardel.l (Hmm... are they still around?)

BTW, I know that DUI offers deep discounts on suits that they have on hand for one reason or another (deposit on new one paid & walked away, new seals or zipper put in but didn't pay for it, etc.). Dunno if other companies have the same deal, but it never hurts to ask, does it?

Second hand online is a bit risky, IMHO. You never really know what you're getting until it arrives at your door. At least with a company you can address any potential problem with them or through a credit card company.

JMHO,

[Mo2vation]

Has anyone actually punctured a suit? I can't imagine ever putting a hole through my suits without whatever it is going through me as well. I just can't imagine generating enough momentum underwater to cause a puncture. Maybe if you are getting beat up in some surge on an exit, but never on a Great Lakes boat dive. Maybe if you are careless with your suit, and get it pinched between something hard and sharp when you are packing, but I can't imagine puncturing a suit underwater.

Tom

I turn a TLS350 into cheesecloth.

I put hundreds of holes in the last TLS I had. The arms and legs looked like a chess board on the inside.

---
Ken

[GRA]

Beecher: Frankly, it sounds like you've covered the main points already.

You know the advantages and disadvantages of each. Now you have to decide what's right for you, and they type of diving you'll be doing.

There is no perfect suit. There is seldom even a "perfect suit" for YOU. What you have to do is decide which compromises you're willing to make.

If it helps any, I looked over the same information you did, and I ended up going with the CLX450. I did spend a lot of time wondering about the CF200, however, and even the TLS350. How important is fast drying time... to ME? How important is the heavy "wet weight" of the CF200... to ME? Will the 50/50 bring me the disadvantages of both, and the advantages of both?

In the end, I went with the "goldilocks" suit, the 450. I was saved the consternation over the 50/50 because I was on a budget. As it is, I think I made the right choice... I don't think the 350 would have been durable enough for me, and there are times that I find the 450 heavy enough as it is to want the CF200... although I do sometimes wonder. I sometimes wonder about the extra flexibility the 450 gives up over both alternatives, but I wouldn't want that to come with less durability. Having had the 450, however, I don't really see how the 50/50's neoprene legs would make such a huge difference... to ME. I'm glad I saved the money. And I'm glad I don't have to carry the extra lead the CF200 would require (even if it's not a huge amount more).

In an ideal world, I'd probably own all three: 350, 450 and CF200. In THIS world, I'm very happy with my CLX450.

I did limit my choices to DUI (only after soul searching and some serious "almosts" with some really nice Bare suits... and today, the Fusion would be a serious monkey wrench in my decision-making), primarily because I was certain I wanted zip seals. Or at least the option of zip seals. (I bought without to lower the initial cost of entry, and added them later... can't do that with other makes.)

I sound a lot like Beecher in my approach to gear; we both spend a lot of time researching, tend to go back and forth when there's no obvious single right answer, but are willing to put the money down because we're buying for the long term.

All that said, I wound up getting a CF200X, because it was one of the suits I was considering (not just DUI), but mostly because a used one (11 years old) in excellent shape that fit me became available locally at a ridiculous price ($340) in the color I wanted, getting me into a dry suit something like 2 years earlier than I would have been able to afford a new one. It's reasonably streamlined, which was important to me (I'd seriously look at a Fusion now). When I did my training in a TLS350 (stock, and definitely not cave cut) I could actually feel the extra drag compared to my wetsuit. That's much less the case with the CF200, although there is some extra drag. But it is very heavy when wet, and I figure a minimum of 2 days to fully air dry the thing inside and out, usually more. A TLS350 will be completely dry on the outside by the time you've finished putting the rest of your dive gear in your car - I imagine a 450 falls in between.

CompuDude's other post re boots is right on; I'd add that turbo soles are a royal pain to turn inside out, and if you've gotten any water inside owing to a seal leak, you have to turn the suit inside out to get it dry. I wouldn't want to travel by air with a CF200 for the above reasons.

I'm thinking about replacing the turbosoles with neoprene socks when they wear out, both because of the drying issue and because of the lack of support/protection, as I'll be going tech and we have our share of rocky entries locally. But I don't generally have major issues with air in the feet, because I tighten the velcro straps down around my ankles.

HTH,

Guy

[Saspotato]

Has anyone actually punctured a suit? I can't imagine ever putting a hole through my suits without whatever it is going through me as well. I just can't imagine generating enough momentum underwater to cause a puncture. Maybe if you are getting beat up in some surge on an exit, but never on a Great Lakes boat dive. Maybe if you are careless with your suit, and get it pinched between something hard and sharp when you are packing, but I can't imagine puncturing a suit underwater.

Tom

I've had two punctures from sea urchins. If it is very surgy and there are sea urchins around, I have been caterpulted into them. At some sites the place is just covered in them. First time was on entry - you kind of have to slide on your belly over some rocks to get in to this site and I got an urchin in my suit and thigh. Another time it was surgy at a pier and I got pushed into a pylon as I was taking photos and not paying attention to my surroundings. Once too, in my wetsuit I accidentally kicked a rock and had a spike go through my foot... HATE sea urchins.

[b1gcountry]

I can relate to stray bits of ladder, but I've just never had to worry about sea urchins...or surge for that matter. I guess that's the benefit of diving in <40* water. You just try to keep the movement to a minimum.

Tom

[aquaoren]

FYI, DUI has a modification to the Turbo soles called "The Mexico boot modification".
They covered all the high wear areas of the the Turbo soles with Cordura material so the weak points (high wear areas) should be taken care of now.
It's a special order item and you have to request it if you want it.

My buddies and I have to walk some distances and over rocks/boulders to the water sometimes too. Most of the times using double 104's/130's, stages and sometimes a heavy scooter and I don't have any issues with lack of support the Turbo soles are giving me and I have bad ankles. YMMV.

Anyway Beecher, if you want to know anything else beyond what we have discussed, you know where to find me.

[scott&sara]

I would say dive em... http://dui-online.com/dog_main.html

Find a Dog Rally and test out all the suits you want. I love the CF200 but I dive my TLS350 99% of the time. I have a cave cut TLS350 so they both dive about the same and offer very little drag in a flow cave.

I bought the TLS350 for airline travel as it dries very quickly (except for the turbo soles) so I can throw it in my bag and not die from the smell when I get home. The CF200 was sized for 400 gm undies so I mostly use that in cold water (< 60 deg).

I think you will need 2 suits

Scott

[ljj]

be aware that the addition of fabric isn't the end all be all of turbo sole modifications. i watch my dive buddy struggle to get his feet into his "mexican boot modification" every time we dive. The modification makes the ankle area less stretchy so if you have any volume to your feet or extra fluffies down there it can be less than ideal. Also i think they narrowed it enough that when he wears extra foot insulation it actually makes his feet numb... I've also heard of the opposite happening, to counteract the narrowing issue, they add volume in the ankles and the stiffer fabric won't allow the cinching down of the ankle straps enough...

*shrug*

FYI, DUI has a modification to the Turbo soles called "The Mexico boot modification".
They covered all the high wear areas of the the Turbo soles with Cordura material so the weak points (high wear areas) should be taken care of now.
It's a special order item and you have to request it if you want it.

My buddies and I have to walk some distances and over rocks/boulders to the water sometimes too. Most of the times using double 104's/130's, stages and sometimes a heavy scooter and I don't have any issues with lack of support the Turbo soles are giving me and I have bad ankles. YMMV.

Anyway Beecher, if you want to know anything else beyond what we have discussed, you know where to find me.

[ljj]

I remember once a long time my dive buddy and i digging sea urchin spines out of each other... My thigh and her ass. ow.

I've had two punctures from sea urchins. If it is very surgy and there are sea urchins around, I have been caterpulted into them. At some sites the place is just covered in them. First time was on entry - you kind of have to slide on your belly over some rocks to get in to this site and I got an urchin in my suit and thigh. Another time it was surgy at a pier and I got pushed into a pylon as I was taking photos and not paying attention to my surroundings. Once too, in my wetsuit I accidentally kicked a rock and had a spike go through my foot... HATE sea urchins.

[AzTek Diver]

I remember once a long time my dive buddy and i digging sea urchin spines out of each other... My thigh and her ass. ow.

Pictures

[GRA]

<snip>

So personally, I split the difference. Standard drysuit socks, over which I wear wetsuit booties (a pair that's lower cut than usual). I can switch to actual rock boots any time I'm diving from a location where I want the extra support, but gearing up is MUCH faster, it's MUCH more comfortable than rock boots, but they keep air out of the feet better than turbo soles. They protect the socks from fins better than turbo soles, and don't wear on the socks as much as rock boots. Best of both worlds, IMO.

What wetsuit boots do you use? If I replace my turbosoles with neo socks I"m considering using something like the SeaSoft Stealth, which will hopefully give me the support and protection I want without losing all ankle flexibility for kicking.

Guy

[aquaoren]

be aware that the addition of fabric isn't the end all be all of turbo sole modifications. i watch my dive buddy struggle to get his feet into his "mexican boot modification" every time we dive. The modification makes the ankle area less stretchy so if you have any volume to your feet or extra fluffies down there it can be less than ideal. Also i think they narrowed it enough that when he wears extra foot insulation it actually makes his feet numb... I've also heard of the opposite happening, to counteract the narrowing issue, they add volume in the ankles and the stiffer fabric won't allow the cinching down of the ankle straps enough...

*shrug*

I just got my suit back from DUI with the new Mexico Mod. Turbo soles and haven't had a chance of trying them out yet. Will try them out this weekend.
None of my buddies who have this boots modification reported any issues though.

[AzTek Diver]

I just got my suit back from DUI with the new Mexico Mod. Turbo soles and haven't had a chance of trying them out yet. Will try them out this weekend.
None of my buddies who have this boots modification reported any issues though.

The only issue I've had is they do fit a little tighter in the xl jets, but they still fit.

[aquaoren]

Dived the Mexico Boot modification for the first time today.
Not a problem getting my feet into the boots. Wearing a 400g Santi suit with the 400g DUI socks with wool socks underneath. The feet do not slide in the boots as easily as in the past due to the Cordura ring under the Velcro strap but it was most certainly not a struggle.

Didn't notice any difference in how the boot fits in the pocket of the Jetfins.

I did notice though that there was less gas accumulating in the boot, which I actually consider to be a bonus. Still more than enough to keep my feet warm.

[John Bailey]

Oren,

Do you wear the same suit with your 400g Santi or do you have another one for summer diving?

John