DUI Drysuits

[Beecher]

Ok, I am interested in getting a drysuit. A DUI in particular.

I was going to get a CF200x. But after reading alot, and having a few conversations with divers, the thought of getting a CLX450 is appealing to me more and more.

Now, for starters, cold water, 40deg below the cline year round (about 60ft summer, 30 in the winter, give or take), 34 above it in the winter. (Greatlakes diving, for those who really know the area). I would like to eventually get into wreck diving, but most of our wrecks are wood, so puncture may not be a huge concern anyway. and my diving will be almost exclusivly local. I am a new diver, I want a suit that I will evolve into, not grow out of.

I know that the cf200 takes a long time to dry, and is very resistance to to puncture, but not so much abrashion.

The CLX is better for abrasion, not so much puncture (but not bad either).

Alot of people seem to prefer the CLX450 after diving both of them, but a number of them also seem to prefer the cf200 pants for they superior fit and flexability.

Ok, now the questions. There would seems to be little advantage to getting a CLX50/50 over a CF200 if you get the CF200 pants. am i right? Is this a better suit to get, or if I want to CF200, just get the whole suit that way. Another option would be to go with just a CLX450 (Stock or Select) or maybe a CLX450 with the cordura material on the pants as well. That said, there is about a $1000 differnce between the CLX450 and either of the CLX50/50 options. (there is a deal on on the stock suit, free upgrade to selct, sport package, actionwear, dc drygloves, xm450 boots and fins) if you pay the stock price,. same deal on stock cf200 for that matter as well.

Is it worth the $1000 for either of those suits over a select clx450.

The other suit Ive been interested in is the CF200x. Thats about enough said on that one.

Now, option choice, these questions may help me decide what suit to get.

If I get a CLX, I would probably get the Expedition package, as I want the hood, pockets, and cloverleaf, anyway. I want some extra knee protection as well, but unsure of the quality of the Cordura knee overlays vs either CF or Kevlar knee pads. Whats your take? take the cordura (im assuming its the same cordura as used to make the pockets) overlays, or forego the exp package, and just get the sport package and piecemeal the cloverleaf and kevlar pads (probably the long ones).

I know most people seem to say the kevlar, but Im not sure about that, as Ive seen a 4year old suit with the kevlar pads wore threw. Heavy use suit of course, 100+ dives a year. probably more.

Next, boots. IVe heard good about both, whats the bad? My thinking would say the Turbosoles would wear were the fins sit, then i started thinking if that is so, then would the socks not wear with the rockboots moving on them? With my experience of the greatlakes, mostly gentle and/or sand entires into the water, and I also have a 12.5 foot enflatable i can use. so, not too much in the way or tough terrain to climb over to get into the water. Not sure if the extra stiffness of the rockboot wouldnt be a hindrance when trying to do somekicks (as i have heard it is).

zipper? classic or quickzip. is the QZ really that bad?

SO, the long short of it is

CLX450?
either of the CLX50/50, is it worth the extra $1000
Which knee pads with the above, are the cordurra overlays a waste of money (that said, i usually take very good care of all my stuff, and mind the high wear stuff, and avoid abusing anything)

CF200, just not sure if one of the three CLX would be a better choice.

I spent about an hour looking at a CLX50/50 today (CF pants), and gave a cf200 a good going over a couple weeks ago.

The suit im kind of leaner towards is the CLX50/50 with the cf200 pants. But it is about $1000 more than either the CLX450 or a cf200x. and im not sure I want to spend the extra $ unless I really need to. and Im not sure that buying a half cf200 suit really gets you any of the advantages of not just buying the whole cf200 suit.

I know, this is long winded, but I searched, and none of these questions had been covered to my satisfaction. Lets keep the discusion to facts, and not just hearsay and opinions. Please give me as much info as possible, where you dive, what type, what suit, what you have, what you wish you had, what you regret spending your money on. If there is something else you think i should consider (and no, im not buying a 350). And I am also going to get latex seals, after the first neck goes, probably a zip, but not right off the bat I dont think.

Ok, that should about cover it for now, if i forgot something, I will add to it.

Thanks alot guys, im expecting infogeddon here, but dont worry, I can handle it, and hopefully this will be able to help alot of other as well.

Beecher

[Rainer]

Take and pass your OW class, then repost this. Just sayin...

[ligersandtions]

DUI suits are expensive. I like them....but I refuse to buy them new. Classified sections on the forums, ebay, craigslist....never new.

I dive a CF200 and I love it. If I didn't dive a CF200 and wanted to stay with the DUI family, I'd look into the CLX450. That's just for me....I don't know a whole lot about the type of diving you'll be doing, but I know those two suits work for my type of diving.


That said, even buying used is still expensive. Take your class, make sure you like diving....then buy your gear (at least the expensive stuff....something like a bp/w has good resale value, so buy that before your class if you must).

[Garibaldi]

I've been diving the same CF 200X for the past 10 years and have over 2,000+ dives on it. I have replaced the zipper, seals and it has a ton of Aquaseal all over it but it is dry as a bone and works great. I wouldn't buy any other suit besides a DUI.

[Sounder]

I agree with the others - definitely get through the class first but as you've said, you're interested in stuff so you're reading up. That's good. Just don't get tempted to run too far, too fast.

Why DUI? There are several great brands, so I'm curious why DUI is the only consideration? Disclosure: I am the west coast rep for Santi Drysuits, and also personally own a DUI and GZ suits.

[Mo2vation]

Buddy

Didn't we go through a lot of this here

I get the gear lust - trust me. My pre-fundies gear questions were all over the place. Just be sure, like with everything else, you don't rely solely on the internet and strangers thousands of miles away for gear information.

Talk to the locals. Dive gear varies wildly by region. Talk to the locals.

Do you have a date for your OW class yet? Its not getting any warmer out there.


---
Ken

[Beecher]

i know, we covered alot of it there, just getting some other opinions. Im going to post this on my local forum as well. your actually the reason i started looking at a clx450. I was going to PM you that, but got sidetracked, then couldnt log back in on my buddies computer, hahah.

yes, i have a date for my course, in a couple of weeks, I dont plan on buying it until after the course.

It took me 4 months to pick a colour for my mini, and thats after i knew i was going to buy one. It will take me many moons to pick one finally. I will keep changing my mind between one suit and then the other. I will be positive one day, and no clue the next. But when I pull out the plastic, I know that I have fully researched the options and made the best possible choice given the info I had at hand. When my mind is finally made up, I quit looking, I like to buy once, and buy for life.

now, can we please forget the rest of the "wait" posts, I was really hoping I had got my point across about them already. PLEASE.

Thanks

Beecher

[CompuDude]

Beecher: Frankly, it sounds like you've covered the main points already.

You know the advantages and disadvantages of each. Now you have to decide what's right for you, and they type of diving you'll be doing.

There is no perfect suit. There is seldom even a "perfect suit" for YOU. What you have to do is decide which compromises you're willing to make.

If it helps any, I looked over the same information you did, and I ended up going with the CLX450. I did spend a lot of time wondering about the CF200, however, and even the TLS350. How important is fast drying time... to ME? How important is the heavy "wet weight" of the CF200... to ME? Will the 50/50 bring me the disadvantages of both, and the advantages of both?

In the end, I went with the "goldilocks" suit, the 450. I was saved the consternation over the 50/50 because I was on a budget. As it is, I think I made the right choice... I don't think the 350 would have been durable enough for me, and there are times that I find the 450 heavy enough as it is to want the CF200... although I do sometimes wonder. I sometimes wonder about the extra flexibility the 450 gives up over both alternatives, but I wouldn't want that to come with less durability. Having had the 450, however, I don't really see how the 50/50's neoprene legs would make such a huge difference... to ME. I'm glad I saved the money. And I'm glad I don't have to carry the extra lead the CF200 would require (even if it's not a huge amount more).

In an ideal world, I'd probably own all three: 350, 450 and CF200. In THIS world, I'm very happy with my CLX450.

I did limit my choices to DUI (only after soul searching and some serious "almosts" with some really nice Bare suits... and today, the Fusion would be a serious monkey wrench in my decision-making), primarily because I was certain I wanted zip seals. Or at least the option of zip seals. (I bought without to lower the initial cost of entry, and added them later... can't do that with other makes.)

[ljj]

I'm curious about the 'abrasion' resistance you mention?

from DUI

#1 CF200
#2 CLX450 but make sure to get cordura on the legs in addition to the top, otherwise you have essentially a TLS with (its polyester rather than nylon) bottom.

[John Bailey]

I have a 450 with rockboots, kevlar knee pads, cloverleaf, p valve and two pockets. I was advised not to get the cordura option on the bottom half, it makes it too stiff. I can't tell you about the turbo soles because I've never tried them, but I will try them on my next suit (a 350). I didn't get zip seals but there are advantages and disadvantages to them.

It was my first drysuit and I wanted the durability, although, I think now I would have preferred a 350 (but you didn't want to hear that). Not a big deal either way. One of the two people I know with a 50/50 wishes they had a 350.

If your bouyancy skills are good and your entries not tough, a 350 is tough enough. For me, I don't see the upside of the neoprene bottoms.

Classic zip is easier to operate (down to close). Not sure where you are. I dive a lot around Kingston, On. Make sure you get fitted properly. All things considered, it is the fit that will make or break it for you.

John

[CompuDude]

Oh, yeah, re boots: There are firm proponents of both turbo soles and rock boots.

I don't care for turbo soles. The lack of protection and overall looseness bothers me, and the fact that it's far too easy for them to balloon up with air. Fins can wear a hole in them far easier than rock boots wear a hole in the regular socks, normally. And, sometimes I go diving from location that involve some walking over large rocks, and the ankle support of rock boots is appreciated.

OTOH, rock boots are a pain, too. They're one more thing to put on and tie up, slowing you down while getting ready. They're much bigger than wetsuit boots, so you'll probably need larger fins, if you switch between wet and dry with any regularity (or ever). And while the extra ankle support is great for hiking down a trail to the dive entry location, it's not so great for kicks.

So personally, I split the difference. Standard drysuit socks, over which I wear wetsuit booties (a pair that's lower cut than usual). I can switch to actual rock boots any time I'm diving from a location where I want the extra support, but gearing up is MUCH faster, it's MUCH more comfortable than rock boots, but they keep air out of the feet better than turbo soles. They protect the socks from fins better than turbo soles, and don't wear on the socks as much as rock boots. Best of both worlds, IMO.

[ljj]

i'm assuming you cut the rockboot laces? done the way DUI recommends, the quick tab, short laces and velcro set up really doesnt take that much longer... *shrug*

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[b1gcountry]

Has anyone actually punctured a suit? I can't imagine ever putting a hole through my suits without whatever it is going through me as well. I just can't imagine generating enough momentum underwater to cause a puncture. Maybe if you are getting beat up in some surge on an exit, but never on a Great Lakes boat dive. Maybe if you are careless with your suit, and get it pinched between something hard and sharp when you are packing, but I can't imagine puncturing a suit underwater.

Tom

[CompuDude]

Has anyone actually punctured a suit? I can't imagine ever putting a hole through my suits without whatever it is going through me as well. I just can't imagine generating enough momentum underwater to cause a puncture. Maybe if you are getting beat up in some surge on an exit, but never on a Great Lakes boat dive. Maybe if you are careless with your suit, and get it pinched between something hard and sharp when you are packing, but I can't imagine puncturing a suit underwater.

Tom

Ocean+surge+spiny urchins covered in needle-sharp spikes.

Punctures happen.

[ljj]

lessee...

holes poked when monkeying with Submarine net out at marrowstone island

holes poked when climbing into and out of boats catching on screw heads and whatnot

holes poked on edges of the worm screw on hose clamps on stage bottles and scooters if not careful

holes poked when getting knocked around on entry/exits on barnacles etc...

I have heard a story about a guy who was scootering by a wreck in current and got a hair to close and it cut a big'ole slice in the leg of his TLS. flood-o-rama. hypothermic deco.

I do work diving from time to time where we have surface supplied light/video/audio cable and a big homebrew camera housing. Stuff like that has also poked holes in my gear from time to time.

getting 'the shot' where you are more focused on shooting the diver scootering by or whatnot vs. what your arm or leg is bumping into = danger from barnacle encrusted or rusty jagged whatever.

were i in warm water, I probably wouldn't worry so much, but no matter what underwear, 48 degree water gets cold if your suit isn't dry anymore.

since getting CF200, no punctures.

if i had a dive sherpa to carry all my gear into the water and help me gear up and make sure i never bumped anything or had to swing any tanks, gear or scooters up on my shoulder, and if I didn't take underwater video, i'd probably dive a nice light weight suit.