How many T1/T2 classes has Mott taught?
MacKay and Sherwood?
Have you spoken with their students?
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How many T1/T2 classes has Mott taught?
MacKay and Sherwood?
Have you spoken with their students?
I understand in the perfect world training is priceless, just not in mine. Based on the reputation UTD has I'm sure a great class will be put on. Bad news travels much faster than good news and so far I haven't found anything negative about any of the instructors I'm potentially interested in. In emails some have been more personable than others, but I haven't enrolled in any class yet as I'm not done researching. I've been in contact with 5 different instructors between GUE and UTD and I'm weighing my consideration carefully. I appreciate your concern but I'm 100% positive which ever choice I make will be the right one. You only get out of the class what you put into it, right?Originally Posted by Rainer
What reputation? Have there even been a dozen UTD T2 classes taught yet (all instructors combined)? Has Mott taught more than one T2 class yet?
I'm not knocking any agency or any instructors, far from it, but it's a little silly to consider all of these guys as being equal, just because they teach for UTD or GUE. Sorry, it just isn't the case. I'd look WELL past the agency and consider the individual instructors. It does matter.
I don't know if the OP has discussed this in another thread, but I'm curious why you're looking to take UTD T1+T2 together. It sounds like you guys are in quite a rush, and I'm wondering if you have a specific plan or series of dives you want to make? If timing is tough and UTD turns out to be the right choice for you, why not take T1, start doing the dives, and sign up for T2 when you've exhausted the dives available to you at the T1 level?
Bob and Dan, I believe, do their tech1's in the StLawrence (1000-islands area) and not Dutch (PA). That probably has no bearing on your decision, but figured I'd toss it out.Good point, I've done some very light research on UTD with a lot of it being word of mouth, some of it from locals I respect. I'll definitely do more but from what I see so far I like. I believe my DIR 'mentor' is attempting to become a UTD instructor but that is just a hunch of mine, maybe he'll chime in here and confirm.
I definitely agree about local instructors and continuing the relationship, as I've seen first hand how this really helps. Having more people to dive with is also always a plus. I like the fact that UTD has a some-what local instructor in James Mott and it appears he has a decent amount of experience on the great lakes, he also shares a common interest in diving (wrecks). GUE's closest Tech 1 instructor would be Dan Mackay or Bob Sherwood. I like the fact that UTD's class is broken up as it will make it MUCH easier to do with work. We were planning on doing this if we took GUE tech 1 and having to drive 12+ hours twice to PA, or paying for an instructor to come here twice is really hard on the budget.. Staying there for 7-10 days is hard on the vacation time just for training. I like to use my vacation time for real 'experience' dives
I have gotten a lot out of my courses with Bob. I have gotten a lot out of my diving with Bob post-courses. I don't know Dan, just his reputation. I do know that both are on the GUE training council.
Chris
"....But no, it had to be the vibrator that died, dangit." Snowbear
"Everyone gets spanked." Lobstah
Originally because UTD 1 and 2 was comparable to GUE Tech 1. With instructor location and cost that really isn't going to be feasible anymore. The new plan is to do some T1 dives in early spring and take T2 during the early summer months before our trip to Florida. I can see the tech 1 level getting pretty boring as it'll be the same wrecks we dive now (130' max) we'll just be able to stay down long and remember a little more.
Chris,
I'd really like to do the class with either of the two above instructors. Logistically it's just going to be a lot harder than if we were to take UTD 1 and then 2 some time later. I'm still in contact with Bob and it's really going to depend on whether or not the class is 5 days or 7 days. Over the next month I'm picking all my vacation days for next year, if the class is 5 days I'll need two vacation days which is feasible, if it's 7 it's going to make it a lot less likely as I'll need a 3rd day and I doubt I'll have the seniority to have 3 days off in summer. The other thing is I'm not sure how much diving we'd be doing with either instructor afterwards just due to the distance. James Mott is a pretty short drive, especially depending on where we're diving. From what I've gathered so far there also seems to be about a $1500 difference between GUE Tech 1 and UTD Tech 1.
Last edited by StreetDoctor; 11-09-2009 at 10:21 AM.
GUE Tech1 is officially a 5day course. There's a definite chance you will provisional a day5 but if you extended the time to 6 or 7 days the chances of passing go up.
UTD Tech1 is (typically) a 3 to 4 day course - locally Bdub's been teaching it mostly over 2 non-concurrent weekends.
The reality is if you are on this much of a time crunch you should brace yourself for more days class than the minimum, some practice days or months, and/or makeup sessions at later dates. Plan accordingly.
By your logic some PADI instructors are supercalifragelistic awesome cause they've "taught" 10,000 divers!
Seriously you think James just fell off the short bus and got certified last year? jeesh.
By your logic some PADI instructors are supercalifragelistic awesome cause they've "taught" 10,000 divers!
Seriously you think James just fell off the short bus and got certified last year? jeesh.
I think Rainer follows me around and calls me out any chance he gets. I wish this forum had a "block" feature.
Setting up make-up days will also be much easier as I can get to Gilboa for two days of diving without taking any time off from work. I'd consider myself an optimist though.
I wonder how much specific teaching experience makes a difference in a lower level class.
I mean, if you're an experienced, solid diver with good skills and you go through an IDC, you're going to teach your first OW class. You're going to encounter some situations you haven't heard about or seen, and maybe not manage them quite as well as you will four years later.
For a Tech 1 class, if you're an experienced trimix diver with good skills, and went through a good IDC, and you have a talent for teaching (which some people do and some do not), it seems to me you are likely to be able to run a good T1 class. You may run into some things you haven't seen before, and not manage them as well as you will a couple of years later. But to completely dismiss an instructor as useless because he is a new instructor seems quite harsh to me.
Personally, from having done a bunch of this type of training, I'd look for an instructor you have easy access to, for reevals or for stretching the class if it's necessary. And I'd look for an instructor who remembers that, no matter how serious the subject matter is, we all do this for FUN. As AG said to me in the Red Sea, it should all be fun. If the classes aren't fun, somebody's lost sight of something.
"What other sport is there where a cute woman has trouble getting rid of her underwear?" Doppler
Of course not. I'm sure James is a fine instructor. I do NOT however agree with the logic that just because he teaches for UTD that he's somehow in the same league as those sitting on the UTD/GUE training council.
Do you honestly think Mott has the teaching/diving experience of an AG/MacKay/Sherwood?
By your logic some PADI instructors are supercalifragelistic awesome cause they've "taught" 10,000 divers!
Seriously you think James just fell off the short bus and got certified last year? jeesh.
I have no idea. But James was an instructor before UTD existed, just like most of the other UTD instructors.
Bdub & Edge were with NAUI
Huber was with IANTD
Lobstah was with NAUI
etc.
Its not like these folks just started diving last year. Besides being a "brand name" instructor guarantees nothing as well, with GUE or any other agency.
Neither teaching experience nor ranking in the agency hierarchy guarantees that any individual student will have a good learning experience with an instructor.
"What other sport is there where a cute woman has trouble getting rid of her underwear?" Doppler
What you're writing is the only point I'm trying to make. Agency brand does NOT matter as much as the experience (diving and teaching) and skill of the individual instructor. I think it's fair to say that ALL of the UTD/GUE instructors are quite good, but they are NOT all equal. As you once wrote yourself, there are A+ and C- instructors in the GUE ranks; I assume the same applies for all agencies.
