Tank Cleaning Whip/Tool?

[CompuDude]

This thread comes as a followup to Joel's post in another recent thread: http://www.divematrix.com/showpost.p...58&postcount=9

...and another thread on DecoStop along similar lines: http://www.thedecostop.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=39150

Ironically, I have a tank that I just vis'd which has some minor rust spots growing at the bottom... the sort of raised, fluffy rust that comes from some water spray, doubtless from crews hooking up for a fill on a boat at some point.

Scratching them clean with my long coat hanger tool thingie would take WAY longer than I'd want to invest, so perhaps it's time for me to look into one of these tank whip tools to clean out the inside, rather than paying for a tumble which may do as much harm as good (per Joel's post).

The DecoStop thread(s) detail how to make the tool, and I'll probably go that route, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some photos of someone else's tank tool, just to make sure I do it correctly. As a band-aid, if anyone local has one I could see in person, that would be helpful as well.

It would be easier for me to just pay for a tumble, but I'd like my tanks to last, so it seems likely this is the more prudent approach, even moreso than trying to set up a way to tumble them myself. (Especially considering my condo leaves me next to nowhere I can really do messy work, and the wife is very intolerant of things that take up more space at home!)

I've seen this sort of thing before, on other tanks, and had it tumbled out quite easily, but since it seems inevitable that this will happen again in the future, having the right tool on hand seems like a great way to go.

One question for those who are well familiar with these tools, too: Does it make more sense to get the stainless wire for a DIY whip, or is the plastic weed-wacker material a safer choice for the inside of the tanks? I know the plastic wears out/down faster and needs replacing, but it just seems safer than metal on metal, at least in my mind.

[TobinGeorge]

This thread comes as a followup to Joel's post in another recent thread: http://www.divematrix.com/showpost.p...58&postcount=9

...and another thread on DecoStop along similar lines: http://www.thedecostop.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=39150

Ironically, I have a tank that I just vis'd which has some minor rust spots growing at the bottom... the sort of raised, fluffy rust that comes from some water spray, doubtless from crews hooking up for a fill on a boat at some point.

Scratching them clean with my long coat hanger tool thingie would take WAY longer than I'd want to invest, so perhaps it's time for me to look into one of these tank whip tools to clean out the inside, rather than paying for a tumble which may do as much harm as good (per Joel's post).

The DecoStop thread(s) detail how to make the tool, and I'll probably go that route, but I still wouldn't mind seeing some photos of someone else's tank tool, just to make sure I do it correctly. As a band-aid, if anyone local has one I could see in person, that would be helpful as well.

It would be easier for me to just pay for a tumble, but I'd like my tanks to last, so it seems likely this is the more prudent approach, even moreso than trying to set up a way to tumble them myself. (Especially considering my condo leaves me next to nowhere I can really do messy work, and the wife is very intolerant of things that take up more space at home!)

I've seen this sort of thing before, on other tanks, and had it tumbled out quite easily, but since it seems inevitable that this will happen again in the future, having the right tool on hand seems like a great way to go.

One question for those who are well familiar with these tools, too: Does it make more sense to get the stainless wire for a DIY whip, or is the plastic weed-wacker material a safer choice for the inside of the tanks? I know the plastic wears out/down faster and needs replacing, but it just seems safer than metal on metal, at least in my mind.

Rust on the bottom, particularly close the center, can be very hard to remove with a whip, and sometimes with a tumble.

The center of the whip is moving at *Zero* feet per second regardless of RPM, and so is the center of the tank when tumbled.

Spot sand blast with a long lance is very effective.

Tobin

[Eric Sedletzky]

Kalani,

Here's what I made to clean the bottoms of steel tanks and it works like a charm.

I took a small stiff wire brush that goes onto the end of a drill and had to cut down quite a bit of material off to make it fit down through the 3/4" tank hole.
I had to wind some wire around the wires to keep it all in place but I can fit it into the tank at least. I tig welded a 5/16 piece of steel rod on the end of the mandrel shaft and left it about 6" longer than my deepest tank. After you run the tool into the tank you have to thread a pipe reducer into the tank so the shaft won't beat the hell out of the tank threads. I also have a multi cable whip I made for the sides that works very well. With the botton wire brush for the bottom I run the drill full blast and apply a good amount of pressure. The cool thing about steel tanks as you know are the rounded bottoms so with the small round wire brush it will want to center down in the low spot right where the rust grows. I work the tool all around the bottom up to where the walls start to go up and the wire whip for the sides overlaps the area worked with the small round brush so pretty much the entire internal surface of the tank can be cleaned spotless. Unlike sand blasting wire brushing doesn't indiscriminately remove everything it comes in contact with like new clean steel, only rust. The place wheree I get my tanks hydroed told me that if tanks get shot blasted they have to be hydroed automatically, but not with wire brushing.

After all the rust is broken loose I blow out the tank with clean air from another scuba tank and a set of blowers I made. One is straight and one is turned backwards to blow all the crap out of the tank. I used a length of copper tubing and soldered it onto an air nipple.

I've had dive shops ask me where I got my tanks cleaned because they've never seen steel tanks so clean and shiny inside.

Here are some photos

[CompuDude]

Thanks for the tips, Tobin and Eric.

Bearing in mind I live in a small condo that my wife takes great pride in keeping to a museum showroom condition, my DIY options are pretty limited. I miss having a yard, a garage and a work bench.

So tig welding is out, as is sand blasting. Although I would be thrilled if those were viable options.

Of course, if Eric is willing to sell me a set of his homemade tools... w00t!

Here is a shot of the bottom of the tank. The tank is spotless other than these spots. I think it's a posterchild for "no need to tumble"... but it wouldn't be bad to get the rust out.

[PeteJ]

Thanks for the tips, Tobin and Eric.

Bearing in mind I live in a small condo that my wife takes great pride in keeping to a museum showroom condition, my DIY options are pretty limited. I miss having a yard, a garage and a work bench.

So tig welding is out, as is sand blasting. Although I would be thrilled if those were viable options.

Of course, if Eric is willing to sell me a set of his homemade tools... w00t!

Here is a shot of the bottom of the tank. The tank is spotless other than these spots. I think it's a posterchild for "no need to tumble"... but it wouldn't be bad to get the rust out.

This is a poster child for put the valve back on for another year or 5.

But if you realy want to brush/whip it, here is a place to get a whip and bottom brush http://northeastscubasupply.com/stor...s/cat_235.html

[Eric Sedletzky]

Hey Kalani,

How bout this.
I'm planning a trip very soon down there to do some shore/boat diving for bugs. I'm going to be hanging with Jon D. and Ross.
I can bring those tools down along with my electric drill and we can meet up somewhere and get that tank scrubbed up. I don't know what city you're in but Jon's in Pasadena.

[CompuDude]

This is a poster child for put the valve back on for another year or 5.

But if you realy want to brush/whip it, here is a place to get a whip and bottom brush http://northeastscubasupply.com/stor...s/cat_235.html

I don't entirely disagree, but what can I say, I like a clean tank.

(Plus the goons at Sport Chalet wanted to send it for a tumble... I brought it in for a fill, having forgotten that the tank was due for a vis, but I happened to have a free vis card so I let them do it for me rather than doing it myself... fortunately they called me rather than tumbling it, and I snatched it back to handle myself.)

Thanks for the link, though, it's been tough to find that stuff online at my usual sources. Spendy, though... I may DIY a solution anyway. The situation is not always so cut and dried... take the tank pictured below, for instance. Similar surface rust, but a LOT more of it. At what point do YOU draw the line?

[CompuDude]

Hey Kalani,

How bout this.
I'm planning a trip very soon down there to do some shore/boat diving for bugs. I'm going to be hanging with Jon D. and Ross.
I can bring those tools down along with my electric drill and we can meet up somewhere and get that tank scrubbed up. I don't know what city you're in but Jon's in Pasadena.

Pasadena is about 1/2 hr away from Studio City (depending on traffic, as always down here), not too bad.

I appreciate the offer, but it's not a big deal... literally not worth the time, gas, and effort, unless you just want to get together for some drinks and the tanks are a sideline.

I'm more looking for a longer term solution I can keep on my shelf at the ready, than a huge amount of concern for this particular tank.

[rjack]

I would tumble the 2nd tank. There are enough spots in there that checking to make sure one isn't a significant pit is iffy.

Get better fills, I don't have any of this crap in my tanks since I started doing my own fills.

[TobinGeorge]

Hey Kalani,

How bout this.
I'm planning a trip very soon down there to do some shore/boat diving for bugs. I'm going to be hanging with Jon D. and Ross.
I can bring those tools down along with my electric drill and we can meet up somewhere and get that tank scrubbed up. I don't know what city you're in but Jon's in Pasadena.

Eric,

If you are going to be in Pasadena let me know. I'll give you the quick tour.

Tobin

[CompuDude]

I would tumble the 2nd tank. There are enough spots in there that checking to make sure one isn't a significant pit is iffy.

Get better fills, I don't have any of this crap in my tanks since I started doing my own fills.

I did tumble them (doubles)... the second one was even worse, if you can believe it. Came shiny clean after a tumble, fortunately, it was all surface fluff.


You don't really have a choice for better fills, on boats, and it's WAY cheaper to tumble a tank (or even replace a pair of doubles!) than it is to even think about setting up a home fill station that's worth bothering with. Not to mention my wife would divorce me, driving up the costs further still.

I'm sure that spray happened on one of two boats... my land-based fill stations are reliable.

[rjack]

try to at least blow out your own valves on the boat right before they hook up the whip.

[JS1scuba]

I don't entirely disagree, but what can I say, I like a clean tank.
At what point do YOU draw the line?

IF this was an industrial cylinder it would be left alone. However for a scuba cylinder it would just need a whipping to take off the surface rust. a probe to check for pitting. Blow out, hot water rinse and hot air dry and put back to service. There is zero reason for this to be tumbled. All that will do is subject the cylinder to constant flast rust.

This is a perfect example of poor filling. Either there was water in the valve face, or there was moisture in the air / gas going in.

Be a bit more careful where you get your fills and NEVER let them fill your tanks in a wet tank.

Cheers
JDS

[CompuDude]

IF this was an industrial cylinder it would be left alone. However for a scuba cylinder it would just need a whipping to take off the surface rust. a probe to check for pitting. Blow out, hot water rinse and hot air dry and put back to service. There is zero reason for this to be tumbled. All that will do is subject the cylinder to constant flast rust.

This is a perfect example of poor filling. Either there was water in the valve face, or there was moisture in the air / gas going in.

Be a bit more careful where you get your fills and NEVER let them fill your tanks in a wet tank.

Cheers
JDS

If I had had a whip at the time, that's exactly what I would have done.

That's why I'm trying to get one, of course. It's a shame they're not more readily available.

And absolutely, re the filling. Sometimes on boats things just happen, though. Not an issue on dry land fills, at least, not in the places where I get my fills.

[rjack]

And absolutely, re the filling. Sometimes on boats things just happen, though.

You Cali folks are too tolerate of crappy boat fills. I would complain to try and raise the bar for these numbnuts doing wet fills. Tell them you are going to use a competitor's boat. Or bring a zillion tanks aboard and when they ask why, tell them how much hassle their wet fills are creating so you brought all your own gas.