Torn.. which way?

[rjack]

Michael are you now planning on progressing beyond recreational GUE-F or Essentials? I know you have gone back and forth on whether more advanced (deco, cave etc) diving is "for you" in the past.

[mwhities]

Hey Michael.

It's nice to have goals and classes to work for, but just get out there and dive. I'm not sure what the closest spot is for you but you should be there at least once a month or more.

Well, I think I've finally decided and as I am, I'm sure all the gracious people on this board are too, tired of being wishy washy. I'm going to sit down and focus on what I want to do in the end and then set forth a plan to get there. It'll take years, but I'll get there,

Thank you.

Michael are you now planning on progressing beyond recreational GUE-F or Essentials? I know you have gone back and forth on whether more advanced (deco, cave etc) diving is "for you" in the past.

Yes, I want to go further with my training. I seem to want and jump at anything that comes up my way. I see it's a flaw I have. I want to be in the "in" crowd. I tend to take on more than I can handle and I see that... Bob and Lynnes' cave reports have helped me see that.

I'm talking to tankedmonkey (Mike Loyco) on FB and I just stated that I had Fundies lined up for this month. It was canceled of course, it sucked, but in a way I'm glad it was. What I know about myself, I'm by no means ready at all for it. It sucks to say that, but it's true.

I need to be honest with myself. My training of anything is going to be a long process, I realize now, that it's okay and for myself, a better thing. I wanted to be this, be that, anything at all. Now I see that I can't be and might not ever be, that's okay.... Look at me know, I'm AOW with nitrox.. so...? All of you are still my friends and if I never get GUE/UTD/whatever certified, all of you will still dive with me and still be my friend.

So, I am going to take a few days, weeks or whatever and find out what my over all goal will be. I know it will not be cave. I don't want to risk life of another diver. I just feel that I would not be able to do something right and end up killing someone else or both of us. (Yes, I plan to take cavern still. I just want it for experience and to dive the few caverns in North West Florida. (Vortex/Morrisons/Cypress)) Cavern, I feel, isn't as dangerous as caves, so, I feel I could handle anything that arises easier there. 

I love Scott's video of The Diamond Knot. That's the type of diving I feel like I really want to do. No penetration (with line), I will do swim throughs and things like that though. The only overhead I want will be deco and I would want to limit that to a total BT of 60 minutes or less.

Like I said, I'm going to go and chew on this for awhile. I feel really confident that I want to take Fundies/Essentials.... I just know right now I'm not ready for it. Until then, I'll just dive and practice over and over.. then when I feel I'm ready, I'll take the class and hope to learn more than I though I had already. (I WILL want to pass, but I know it's not about pass/fail.)

I hope this made sense, even if it's just a little.

Michael

[rjack]

Despite Joel's silly recommendation to learn diving from the internet, I would just take fundementals or essentials now. Go to learn not to "pass".

I would try to find some regular buddies to dive with and have fun and don't worry about the rest, it will come.

If you come up here to visit we may or may not be able to get you on the Diamond Knot (which can be done as a "no deco" dive albit a bit short). But we could definitely get you some other wrecks in the AOW range (<~110ft). http://www.boydski.com/diving/wreck_dives.htm

Richard

[Rainer]

Agree with rjack. Just take the class. Continuing to put it off while you "get ready" isn't going to help as much as jumping in now.

[mwhities]

Despite Joel's silly recommendation to learn diving from the internet, I would just take fundementals or essentials now. Go to learn not to "pass".

I would try to find some regular buddies to dive with and have fun and don't worry about the rest, it will come.

If you come up here to visit we may or may not be able to get you on the Diamond Knot (which can be done as a "no deco" dive albit a bit short). But we could definitely get you some other wrecks in the AOW range (<~110ft). http://www.boydski.com/diving/wreck_dives.htm

Richard

Richard, yeah, gotta watch that Joel guy.

I have a buddy that I've semi converted... he has the BP/W, long hose, etc... we just need to dive more and practice more. (Even if it's in the 15' pool at the local gym.)

I'd love to do the Diamond Knot right away, but I'd rather wait until I can fully enjoy it. And of course, it doesn't HAVE to be that wreck (although, any wrecks I see in videos, I want to dive it. ).

I'm perfectly happy to go less than 100' on any dive. Remember, I'm 6' 6" and my lungs are BIG... I go through air faster than the shorter (not bigger/smaller, but shorter) guys/gals. So I'll have a set of doubles please.

I do appreciate the offer and I will take you up on it.

Michael

[BDub]

+1

Take the class...

Essentials is not pass/fail, deliberately. We wanted to alleviate that pressure so the student can concentrate on learning, not passing.

Likewise, while Fundamentals is a pass/fail/provisional, if you go in with the mindset of "I want to be a better diver regardless of pass/fail/provisional" you take the pressure off yourself and will walk away a better diver.

[mwhities]

Agree with rjack. Just take the class. Continuing to put it off while you "get ready" isn't going to help as much as jumping in now.

Maybe you two are right, it will give me an insight on what the skills are and what they are looking for. As of right now, I'm totally ignorant to exactly what they want and what they want it to look like.

Never know, I might pass it the first time. I KNOW I need to practice on the bag shoot though and just do the other skills in general to practice before class.

Thanks, your comments are always welcomed,

Michael

[jkhaywood]

Agree with rjack. Just take the class. Continuing to put it off while you "get ready" isn't going to help as much as jumping in now.

I agree as well. It will be a very valuable class whether or not you ever want to get into the tech realm.

[rjack]

I do appreciate the offer and I will take you up on it.

Good cause you don't have to be UTD or GUE anything to be a decent diver who's fun to be around. If you showed up tomorrow we could get you on at least 4 or 5 interesting wrecks in the ~70ft or less range that are great for AOW divers.

[mwhities]

+1

Take the class...

Essentials is not pass/fail, deliberately. We wanted to alleviate that pressure so the student can conceentrate on learning, not passing.

Likewise, while Fundamentals is a pass/fail/provisional, if you go in with the mindset of "I want to be a better diver regardless of pass/fail/provisional" you take the pressure off yourself and will walk away a better diver.

Thank you. I've heard that over and over and I agree. Any class I take, I am not worried about pass or fail. I'm taking the class to learn whatever skills they want me to learn and then practice them to eventually master them.

I was told a thinking diver is the best diver... I think I'm a good diver!

I agree as well. It will be a very valuable class whether or not you ever want to get into the tech realm.

Thank you. I will definitely consider doing it sooner. I'm still not GOOD with my buoyancy and hoovering, but I know it's getting better. That's why I was kinda glad Fundies was canceled this time around. Buoyancy and hoovering are the things I need to concentrate on the most and shooting the bag too.

Michael

[mwhities]

Good cause you don't have to be UTD or GUE anything to be a decent diver who's fun to be around. If you showed up tomorrow we could get you on at least 4 or 5 interesting wrecks in the ~70ft or less range that are great for AOW divers.

Again, I appreciate it and this confirms my thoughts and feelings earlier.

Fun to be around? Most people like me because of my dis-arming smile....

Michael

[Codyjp]

Instructors that have 500 dives a year don't impress me when 300 of those are pool dives, 150 of those are 10 minute 5-at-a-time OW dives with students, and the other 50 were in Cozumel with two week-long dive shop trips.

If your instructor isn't diving on their own outside of the teaching arena, you have to ask yourself do they really like to dive? I'm serious. I've met many instructors that have completely lost the love of diving. Lost that wanderlust, lost that dewy newness, that frisson of excitement you get the morning of a dive - and replaced it with teaching diving while talking themselves into thinking its the same thing.

Great point. An instructor can teach me (I suppose) stuff I can't learn from friends or from reading or from videos. But I sure hope they can show me something new in the water - something more to love about diving. Something from their storehouse of experience.

Good stuff here.


---
Ken

Please do not discount the skill required to teach a class. I can't even imagine the logistics of teaching a class in an overhead environment or teach one with students with blacked out masks. That is a whole hell of a lot tougher than just going out for a scooter ride to look at the fishes, even if the do do a half dozen in one day and they only last 20 minutes. They have to keep track of more on one dive that you or I have to in 10.

I rarely take personal flights. If I did I doubt there would be very little I could gain from doing so that would help make me a better instructor at this point.

Accomplishing a dive while babysitting people who are trying to kill themselves and you must be though. I have huge respect for instructors (ok, but not the kneeling in the sand instructors).

[Sockmonkey]

I've been thinking about this question most of the day today. I felt the same sort of confusion and frustration when it came to getting the training ball rolling. I'm sure whatever you're feeling is only compounded by where you live (inland not MS)

I once had a real emotional attachment to taking the fundies. I was really quite single minded. I had caves on the brain. My poor wife had to endure hours of me talking about how I'm going to get into the fundies, where I would take it, which instructor, what about taking it in a quarry vs salt water, should I take it on the east coast, what about the west coast, blah blah blah. I had just given up and decided to just take a class from a couple instructors I enjoyed diving with... they just happened to have finished the UTD crossover just as I made peace with the fact that I hadn't failed my maniacal mission by not going GUE.

They could have been teaching a team diving class with the Lunar Scuba Agency and I probably would have signed up. It also helped that the rest of my regular team dug diving with these instructors.

What I learned that once I let go of this obsessive goal I ended up doing alot more of what I wanted to do in the first place... dive.

Had I stayed in Boston I'm sure I would have taken the fundies in CT with some super kick ass people and been well on my way.... but I moved to Seattle and did UTD IntroToTech and laughed my ass off doing so... and now I'm in Hawaii and I'll probably take some equiv of T1 from a dude I enjoy diving with... so I can continue diving locally, in the style of my choosing, with the people I enjoy being around the most.

Consider yourself wicked lucky. You're free from the GUE obligation because as of this moment you're not feeling the cave thing. (never say never btw) Now you're able to pick and choose among instructors that you connect with.

So my advice is to choose whoever you think you'll have the most fun with.

-Eric

[mwhities]

I've been thinking about this question most of the day today. I felt the same sort of confusion and frustration when it came to getting the training ball rolling. I'm sure whatever you're feeling is only compounded by where you live (inland not MS)

I once had a real emotional attachment to taking the fundies. I was really quite single minded. I had caves on the brain. My poor wife had to endure hours of me talking about how I'm going to get into the fundies, where I would take it, which instructor, what about taking it in a quarry vs salt water, should I take it on the east coast, what about the west coast, blah blah blah. I had just given up and decided to just take a class from a couple instructors I enjoyed diving with... they just happened to have finished the UTD crossover just as I made peace with the fact that I hadn't failed my maniacal mission by not going GUE.

They could have been teaching a team diving class with the Lunar Scuba Agency and I probably would have signed up. It also helped that the rest of my regular team dug diving with these instructors.

What I learned that once I let go of this obsessive goal I ended up doing alot more of what I wanted to do in the first place... dive.

Had I stayed in Boston I'm sure I would have taken the fundies in CT with some super kick ass people and been well on my way.... but I moved to Seattle and did UTD IntroToTech and laughed my ass off doing so... and now I'm in Hawaii and I'll probably take some equiv of T1 from a dude I enjoy diving with... so I can continue diving locally, in the style of my choosing, with the people I enjoy being around the most.

Consider yourself wicked lucky. You're free from the GUE obligation because as of this moment you're not feeling the cave thing. (never say never btw) Now you're able to pick and choose among instructors that you connect with.

So my advice is to choose whoever you think you'll have the most fun with.

-Eric

Exactly.

I did want to do cave for a long time, and somewhat had my doubts on doing it, but everyone else was doing it and I wanted to prove (to myself) that I could do it. Well, I had a dose of reality. I don't have to prove anything to myself or anyone else. I shouldn't put others or even myself into harms way. So no cave for me. (I won't say ever. :P)

I'm working on the main goal of just diving now. Whether it will be my once a month weekend at ABWA or the several trips a month to the pool, I WILL dive.

I understand that I can find an instructor I click with, but I am not sure (unless they've been through Fundies or better) that I would get the same training as what the GUE guide lines are. I feel that UTD has essentially the same, so that's why I considered them as well.

Ed Gabe is my "neighbor" and the one I selected for the class that was supposed to happen this month. I've talked with him and have e-mailed with him several times. He strikes me as a great instructor and I believe several people here and on other boards, recommend him and have taking Fundies with him.

So if I need to jump in to a Fundies class, I'd like to with him. Here is a kicker for you too. Those of you that stay up with GUE changes know this:

GUE Primer. Is a no pass/fail class. It doesn't hit all the skills like Fundies, but it helps divers become "better" diving divers without the cert. Should I entertain that or go to Fundies instead?

Thanks,

Michael

[LCF]

Well, for you, Michael, either class is going to be away from home. And I think you are already familiar with the idea of trim and balance, and with some of the kicks, no? So driving wherever you would have to go to spend two days working on those things might not be a good investment, whereas the full Fundamentals class would also challenge you with air-sharing drills, ascent drills, and possibly bag shooting.

I think most of all, you need to take a deep breath, stop and look around you at the diving you are doing and are likely to do, and figure out what training you need, or what training will best enhance your enjoyment of YOUR diving.