Advice

[Peter Guy]

Doug and Brian -- regarding my statement that the three of them "weren't a team" was merely in response to Tim's question -- not a comment on training techniques or anything else. I think it does take some "practice" for any group to become "a team" regardless of how well they have been trained. (Just ask any All Star coach!) But for the purposes of training, it actually may be a teaching advantage for the students NOT to have much experience diving together.

Doug -- I'll have to bow to your greater experience in technical diving situations regarding the advantages/disadvantages of having experience diving together. In my very limited experience in both technical training and techreational diving, I've found that having a good idea of my teammates' strengths and weaknesses, both physical and mental, (and we all have both) is just one more "team resource" that is good to know and use. At least in my life experience, we only learn these strengths and weaknesses when we "play together" as a team (and this is true for any "team sport") -- but perhaps you are right here. I hope I'm never in a situation where I need to find it out.

[dsteding]

Doug -- I'll have to bow to your greater experience in technical diving situations regarding the advantages/disadvantages of having experience diving together. In my very limited experience in both technical training and techreational diving, I've found that having a good idea of my teammates' strengths and weaknesses, both physical and mental, (and we all have both) is just one more "team resource" that is good to know and use. At least in my life experience, we only learn these strengths and weaknesses when we "play together" as a team (and this is true for any "team sport") -- but perhaps you are right here. I hope I'm never in a situation where I need to find it out.

Well, sure, the knowledge is valuable--and I'll take it. I've got teammates that I definitely know strengths and weaknesses, and they know mine. But, I like to try and set things aside a bit. If someone has solid skills and the right mindset, I believe we can get there in terms of executing the dive.

For me, the last year has been an exercise in developing experience and becoming "fluid" in terms of response to changing conditions. I guess my point is that seems to be just as valuable (or maybe more so) as responding "correctly" to a given problem that is presented in a class--or predicting your teammate's responses under stress.

[rjack]

Yeah, I think one of the really HARD parts of this learning . . . and one I clearly haven't got a good handle on even yet . . . is to be able to be a graceful follower, and instantly grasp that it's time to take charge. Take charge too forcefully or at the wrong moment, and you make things worse; fail to take control, and you may allow the spiral into the incident pit. What's more, when something works is somewhat personality-dependent. One of the things I failed to do, I didn't do because if somebody did it to me, it would have made things much worse. I talked to Claudette, and she instantly agreed -- but to the instructor, it was the right intervention. You have to know your people.

There are people I dive with that I know really well -- how they react, how they think, and what they say afterward. This team wasn't that clued in to one another's strengths and weaknesses, and how each of us would react. You can easily see why, if you are going to do really challenging dives, where a lot is on the line, doing it with people you can really read and predict is an important part of feeling really comfortable.

And once again, this weekend of diving drove home that diving is about 75% mental, and nerves make a mess of anybody's skills

I disagree with this. Although predicting people's behavior can be comforting--what if you're in a situation (on a big dive) where things break down and become unpredictable. I'd rather have someone on that dive who I am on the same page with (in terms of communication and approach to the dive) and who I know has them mental capacity to do the dive and handle things when the crap hits the fan. If the crap does, the last thing I'll be doing is reading them and predicting their behavior--hopefully I'll be reading the environment and the conditions and why the crap hit the fan and working with the team to extricate ourselves.

Ding. You can't rely on feeling and intuitive expectations of your buddies. When the real crap hits the fan, it will be real crap because you will not have experienced anything directly comparable. You'll need sufficient bandwidth to reason, then communicate, and then someone will have to lead and someone will have to follow.

I'll take a good thinking communicator over someone I know well but who is expecting me to read their mind anyday.

[Sounder]

... someone I know well but who is expecting me to read their mind...

This describes Mrs. Sounder perfectly.

[LCF]

Where did this stuff about reading minds come from? When I say "read people" I'm talking about understanding what you observe in the context of who you're observing. If I wobble a couple of feet off a stop in midwater, it's normal. If Kirk does it, something is wrong. There are people I know who would handle any equipment malfunction with equanimity, and others who might need a lot more support from the team. There are people who are too passive, and people who take charge when they shouldn't. All I was talking about was having a sense for how somebody reacts to things, and knowing what their tendencies are.

[Grateful Diver]

Where did this stuff about reading minds come from? When I say "read people" I'm talking about understanding what you observe in the context of who you're observing. If I wobble a couple of feet off a stop in midwater, it's normal. If Kirk does it, something is wrong. There are people I know who would handle any equipment malfunction with equanimity, and others who might need a lot more support from the team. There are people who are too passive, and people who take charge when they shouldn't. All I was talking about was having a sense for how somebody reacts to things, and knowing what their tendencies are.

I'm with you, Lynne. Having just completed a wreck penetration class with a couple of very competent divers, the biggest issues we had were communication issues. All three of us are on the same page with respect to our training, but not all that familiar with diving together as a team. Over the course of three days, these issues became less and less as we grew more accustomed with each other.

Similar skills and protocols are a great starting point ... but familiarity is what makes a team mesh.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[dsteding]

Where did this stuff about reading minds come from?

We read your mind?

[rjack]

This describes Mrs. Sounder perfectly.

I know the feeling

[rogerbly]

Advice? Looking back on GUE tech1 and tech2 I'd say it's 80% buoyancy (under task load) and 20% other stuff. And relax and enjoy the hobby. Oh, and never dive a rebreather

[Celt5494]

Advice? Looking back on GUE tech1 and tech2 I'd say it's 80% buoyancy (under task load) and 20% other stuff. And relax and enjoy the hobby. Oh, and never dive a rebreather

I just can't imagine anyone would actually even think of the idea to dive a rebreather. They should be automatically banned from ever entering the water again.