Having a compressor at home

[headhunter]

What is the current thinking about setting up your own fill station at home?

What are the issues that need to be considered to help someone determine whether or not this is the right move for them?

If it is the right thing to do, then how do you decide which is the right compressor for your needs?

I think I may want to do this at some point in the future, but have not really made a decision about it.

Christian

[mdb]

What is the current thinking about setting up your own fill station at home?

What are the issues that need to be considered to help someone determine whether or not this is the right move for them?

If it is the right thing to do, then how do you decide which is the right compressor for your needs?

I think I may want to do this at some point in the future, but have not really made a decision about it.

Christian

Christian: A good source of info could be Ray Contreras @
www.rayzplace.com/compressor/

[TobinGeorge]

What is the current thinking about setting up your own fill station at home?

What are the issues that need to be considered to help someone determine whether or not this is the right move for them?

If it is the right thing to do, then how do you decide which is the right compressor for your needs?

I think I may want to do this at some point in the future, but have not really made a decision about it.

Christian

Being in the middle of building out a fill station currently I'll share a few thoughts.


Think about the gases you want to be able to produce at the fill station.

If air and 32% are all need, then a small compressor and mixing stick is a reasonable solution from a cost / space / use stand point.

If you want to be able to fill HP O2, and 50% and Trimix then the range of choices becomes much wider, and the solutions become much more expensive. At least one booster is required, along with a means to drive it (shop air comp usually) More gauges, more HP valves and fitting, more bank bottles etc.

Tobin

[rjack]

What's your distance from your LDS?
What mixes are you planning on filling now and in the future?
Are you trying to travel with this system or just for home?
Garage/space available?
Any covenants or other restrictions on your property (e.g. condo association)?
Are you "handy"?

Richard

ps My system is thread #1 in this subforum.

[rjack]

If you want to be able to fill HP O2, and 50% and Trimix then the range of choices becomes much wider, and the solutions become much more expensive. At least one booster is required, along with a means to drive it (shop air comp usually) More gauges, more HP valves and fitting, more bank bottles etc.

I would disagree on the booster needs. I am doing just fine CBing everything from 32% to 18/45. I only PP 50% and that's quite easy to accomodate since I have 2 O2 cylinders and one of them generally has enough pressure to decant.

[TobinGeorge]

I would disagree on the booster needs. I am doing just fine CBing everything from 32% to 18/45. I only PP 50% and that's quite easy to accomodate since I have 2 O2 cylinders and one of them generally has enough pressure to decant.

How do you achieve 3000 ps O2 fills?

Tobin

[rjack]

How do you achieve 3000 ps O2 fills?

Tobin

I don't, but then again I don't require them. 2100psi in an AL40 is way more than I would use for the rare O2 deco dive. All depends on your needs/requirements.

Richard

[headhunter]

These are the types of things that I was wondering about. I didn't really even know which questions I should ask, so this is really helpful.

I've considered getting something portable and gasoline powered. I don't have the vehicle for it now, but plan to get a Jeep CJ-8 later this summer and one of the Bauers that I saw on Ray Contreras' web site might be nice for travelling down Baja and finding some out of the way places to dive. 2 four wheelers with camping equipment, dive gear and a compressor could have a whole lot of fun in Baja!

One of these days I really need to pick up a copy of Vance Harlow's book, The Oxygen Hacker's Companion. That may give me a nice reality check.

Here are some more answers to those questions.

For now I'd be using it for air and 32%. I'm not breathing He yet, but will probably do so in the future. Once I'm diving He, I'm sure I'll be diving 50% soon after and someday 100% for deco.

If I go portable, I'm not sure about the practicality and legality of hauling a bottle of He across the border into Mexico, but that's not something I expect to do that often. We probably wouldn't be doing very deep dives out in the boon docks anyway, so that may not matter.

It takes me about 30 minutes to drive to my LDS, which is about 20 miles away, so I'm using about $7 in gasoline and an hour of my time to go there.

The question about garage space made me laugh! Once I get rid of all my "treasures" that I really don't need or use anymore, I should have plenty of space. I've also thought about building a shed behind the garage just for fills.

There are no CCRs where we live, but I can see that this would be pretty important if we did!

I'm pretty handy with things, so I don't think I'll have any trouble building, setting up or maintaining whatever I need.

Thanks!

Christian

[TobinGeorge]

I don't, but then again I don't require them. 2100psi in an AL40 is way more than I would use for the rare O2 deco dive. All depends on your needs/requirements.

Richard

I agree. That's why the diver needs to examine exactly what gases / fills he will need.

If your goal is to avoid traveling to a "Tech" fill station, and all you can pump is CB <40% you may not have reached that goal with a mixing stick and a garage compressor.

If you want to add PP to make 50% and decant from a cascade, then OCA (or some facsimile) will add cost to the compressor filtration. If you can make OCA air do you want to bother with the stick and the analyzers and the O2 delivery reg, or just PP blend everything?

Lots of ways to reach the goal.

Tobin

[rjack]

Well you're not going to save much over just going to your LDS for 32%, and its not so far away to really justify on the convenience side IMHO. You would save money on trimix and fuel. That's why I have a compressor: 45min drive each way to drop off tanks, $$$ saving on fuel, $ savings on trimix.

Personally, I would get an electric unit, you can swap out to a gas engine for trips (~$250). I would not use gas power at home in a garage. Too risky. If you are travelling you will be spending a substantial amount of time filling tanks every day at ~3cfm. Going bigger (>5cfm) is doable but will exponentially drive up your costs and possible require diesel power which is an expensive add-on. Much bigger than 6cfm at home may creat insurmountable problems since they will probably come with 3phase power, which is not available to most residences.

I would definately get secondary filtration, not necessarily a hyper tower. Just an ordinary triplex cartridge tower.

I would not worry about hauling a supply tank of anything into or out of MX. A) I'm pretty sure there are reciprocal agreements on transport via NAFTA and B) MX doesn't care. However, to get any real supply of gas (ie. you and your buddies) you are looking at a substantial amount of weight. A T bottle of He (300cf) weighs about 180lbs. They are heavy mothers.

I am continuous blending all my mixes except 50%. If you are travelling you'll want to CB since you need to be ultra efficient on supply gas weight. I do it cause its more efficient and honestly I think its easier. At least once you have the flow rates dialed in. I PPed 32% for about 8 months before stepping up and doing my trimix that way.

If you are getting a CCR or going that route you need a booster, but not necessarily a compressor.

Get oxyhacker's book and read up here:
http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9756&
(And basically every other thread in the compressor forum on TDS.)

Richard

[headhunter]

I just started playing with the time difference between 3 cfm and 5 cfm on an empty set of double 100s.

Obvously, this changes depending on how much is left in the tanks, but empty it looks like I'd be saving about 20 minutes per set going with a 5 cfm compressor instead of a 3 cfm compressor. Assuming 4 divers, that saves about 80 minutes in fill time.

That's an over simplification and just intended to get the idea, but could make the difference between about 4 hours of filling and about 2 and a half hours of filling.

I like the idea of getting a compressor that could be switched between electric and gas powered.

There is a lot to think about!

On a side note, has anyone that knows him mentioned to Vance Harlow that this forum is here?

Christian

[rjack]

Look into a Bauer Capitano. You will want more filtration than a PO cartridge though. They are very small and I would not rely on that alone. Not going to be easy to switch the motor to an engine either, but do-able. The weight is substantial at ~280lbs. I would steer clear of lighter weight blocks like those used in the Coltri's myself. Not durable enough for my investment. However you may be able to save a bunch of weight that way, I don't know their product line in detail.

Don't forget, if you fill someones tanks and they have any kinda problem you'll probably be in the lawsuit.

[rcontrera]

Christian: A good source of info could be Ray Contreras @
www.rayzplace.com/compressor/

OK ... NOW I see why I got told to come here!! Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Owning a compressor is usually not a thing that you jump into to save money. Last time I calculated it out, a single 80 cost about $2.92 to fill ... not including the cost of the compressor itself. It is more of a convenience thing or just knowing the quality of your breathing gas.

Since the "average" diver only does about 25 dives per year, I don't suggest dropping the bucks or taking the time to run a compressor system at home. However, if the LDS is a ways off, or just pumps smelly air, or you regularly travel with a dozen tanks to your favorite dive spot, then a compressor might be for you.

Take note ... running a compressor is not something you do without learning something about your system. You are dealing with high pressures that can make pieces of machinery come unglued if you don't take care of that machinery. Regular oil and filter changes are a MUST!

OK ... that said ... small personal compressors are great for filling individual divers' cylinders. Most are not rated for constant run so must be shut off after a couple of hours to cool down before running again. For our little gas powered guys, that means filling about six tanks before shutting down for an hour or so.

No matter which compressor you get, make sure that it is outfitted with a pressure maintaining valve (commonly called a priority valve). It maintains a back pressure on the filtration system and increases the efficiency of the mechanical filter as well as the chemical filter stack.

If you are running a gasoline driven compressor, make sure that you use the triplex filters. They contain a desiccant to remove oil and water, a CO absorber to convert deadly Carbon Monoxide into relatively harmless CO2 and activated charcoal to remove taste and smell. These filters cost more than the standard duplex cartridges but the peace of mind is worth it.

Again, with the gasoline model, make sure that it comes with a "snorkel" on the inlet. This will allow you to hang the inlet filter a few feet away from the engine exhaust to minimize chances of contaminating the air.

There are really lots more considerations, but since this is an old thread, I will leave it there unless there is more interest. If you want to contact me directly, I am at ray@rayzplace.com.

[headhunter]

OK ... NOW I see why I got told to come here!! Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Owning a compressor is usually not a thing that you jump into to save money. Last time I calculated it out, a single 80 cost about $2.92 to fill ... not including the cost of the compressor itself. It is more of a convenience thing or just knowing the quality of your breathing gas.

Since the "average" diver only does about 25 dives per year, I don't suggest dropping the bucks or taking the time to run a compressor system at home. However, if the LDS is a ways off, or just pumps smelly air, or you regularly travel with a dozen tanks to your favorite dive spot, then a compressor might be for you.

Take note ... running a compressor is not something you do without learning something about your system. You are dealing with high pressures that can make pieces of machinery come unglued if you don't take care of that machinery. Regular oil and filter changes are a MUST!

OK ... that said ... small personal compressors are great for filling individual divers' cylinders. Most are not rated for constant run so must be shut off after a couple of hours to cool down before running again. For our little gas powered guys, that means filling about six tanks before shutting down for an hour or so.

No matter which compressor you get, make sure that it is outfitted with a pressure maintaining valve (commonly called a priority valve). It maintains a back pressure on the filtration system and increases the efficiency of the mechanical filter as well as the chemical filter stack.

If you are running a gasoline driven compressor, make sure that you use the triplex filters. They contain a desiccant to remove oil and water, a CO absorber to convert deadly Carbon Monoxide into relatively harmless CO2 and activated charcoal to remove taste and smell. These filters cost more than the standard duplex cartridges but the peace of mind is worth it.

Again, with the gasoline model, make sure that it comes with a "snorkel" on the inlet. This will allow you to hang the inlet filter a few feet away from the engine exhaust to minimize chances of contaminating the air.

There are really lots more considerations, but since this is an old thread, I will leave it there unless there is more interest. If you want to contact me directly, I am at ray@rayzplace.com.

Ray,

Thanks for your input and welcome to The Dive Matrix!

It's not terribly inconvenient for me to get the tanks filled locally. I actually have many choices around SoCal to get a decent fill. If I were to set up a system at home it would be done because I simply enjoy the process of doing things myself rather than to save money.

At this point, I think I'm more interested in going with some sort of portable system that would allow me to fill tanks in out of the way dive locations where it's really inconvenient to get tanks filled. Out of the way places in Baja come to mind.

Of course, I need to build my dive mobile first!

I'm currently using my Nissan Maxima to haul my gear around and often don't even have room for a passenger. It's in remarkably good condition for my fairly regular schedule of diving. I don't even think about using my wife's Infiniti G35 to take anything dive related anywhere.

The plan is to build an old Jeep CJ-8 (aka Scrambler) for both diving and off road use. It will be a frame-up rebuild with quite a bit if customization and I think that a compressor system would be perfect for diving in out of the way locations. I'd build some sort of a box to keep the compressor clean and free from dirt.

Any information that you can share would be appreciated by not only me, but I'm sure by anyone who runs across this thread in the future.

Thanks.

Christian

[rjack]

My only suggestion on portability is to use steel 72s for O2. They are fairly lightweight and you can transfill out of 2200 or 2400 O2 cylinders to fill them via a cascade.

Edit: For traveling that is. Each 72 (when filled to 2400) will be able to make about 500cf of 32% by continuous blending.