Backplate and Wing What kind is the best?

[rex93]

Hello,

I am a new diver but I just started taking Ed Hayes Bouyency class and I am completely hooked on the Plate and wing equipment. Rationally speaking its a no brainer.

-negative bouyency so you can where less weight
- weight pockets so you dont need a weight belt
- firmly situated so you center of gravity doesnt shift
- much more thermodynamic then a regular bc
- doest constrict chest so you can breathe more fully
- less failure points
- less stuff hanging off to get caught on stuff
- easy to travel with
- and on and on

Problem is, I dont know which system to get. I am using a halycon right now in class and of course it is really sweet. But I know that deep sea supply makes a much less expensive plate and wing. Which is the best? I want the best equipment.

[care]

The Halcyon rig is sweet. I had bought an OMS just prior to starting class but I liked the Halcyon so much I pawned it off on my husband and got the Halcyon for myself. Having already spent just as much on a recreational bcd when I started diving, I felt the Halcyon was well worth the money. Almost a year later, I still feel it was a good decision.

[Mo2vation]

I've used them all over the years, and when I started diving DSS (www.deepseasupply.com) I stopped switching rigs.

For me, it was a matter of thoughtful design, precise matching of the rig to my body type and diving, durability, access to the owner of the company and customer service.

Design
Its just made well. I dive a lot, which means I transport my stuff a lot. Being able to remove the wing without taking off the cam bands is genius. Look at all of the other design features - material selection, precision machining of components, innovation - it becomes clear this company is committed to the product.


Choices
With several plate sizes available, a couple of different harness types and who knows how many wing sizes (with air cell in the rear, center or forward to match my exposure suit and buoyancy needs) I was able to truly customize my DSS rig to my body and my diving style. I wasn't just buying the one steel plate and the one singles wing offered.


Durability
Super heavy duty bladders in the wings, super-tough nylon wing material, tank buckles that actually stay closed, exhaust valves that don't shatter on impact - I could go on and on. DSS stuff is built to last. I have over 500 dives on my rig in less than 2 years, and it still looks and works perfect.


Customer Service
The owner of the company is its chief designer. The guy dives SoCal - the same place I dive. He knows what we need here and he delivers. In addition to plates and wings, DSS makes all manner of other stuff that makes diving easer, safer and more enjoyable. Another important thing was having the company local - so if anything was ever to go wrong I wasn't shipping my stuff to Florida or the Mid-West or out of the country.


There are a lot of other things that impacted my decision as well. One of them is DSS makes most all of their own stuff in house. They don't have the bladders sourced here, the wings made over there, buy their plates from this guy and have them assembled at that other place, etc. You'd be amazed at how this is done, even by some of the majors. Nearly every bit of a DSS plate and wing is manufactured and assembled under one roof - the quality control is there as well as the accountability.

Lastly - access to the owner. Try getting the designer or the owner on the phone from some of these other companies. DSS's guy, Tobin George, is accessible. You call, he's there. You send him an eMail, he responds. You write him a PM on any of the dive boards, he writes back. He's the only guy online more than I am...

I would highly recommend adding DSS to your list of candidates before you make your final selection. There are a lot of things to consider when buying your blackplate and wing - much more than just "I'll take the steel plate and single tank rig." Look at the whole package - design, choices, durability, customer service, accessibility.


---
Ken

[LCF]

As with a number of other things in Scuba, the majority of plates and wings are well-made and useful. And nowadays, we have a lot of brands and models from which to choose.

The reason I recommend Deep Sea Supply is not only that their goods are well-priced in the spectrum of backplate and wing setups, but even more because the customer service is fantastic. When one of my best friends called Tobin up to order a single tank rig from him, he wouldn't sell it to her.

Not until she had gathered the information he needed to be sure she was buying the rig that would be right for HER, and that she would be happy with and comfortable using.

When was the last time you ran into a company that wouldn't allow you to buy unsuitable stuff from them?

DSS rocks.

[dsteding]

I'd pile on to the DSS love-fest. Tobin makes great stuff, his package rigs are very reasonably priced, and he'll take the time to figure out what is best for you.

Other manufacturers to consider would be Golem, Agir, Oxycheq or Halcyon, but pretty hard to go wrong with DSS.

[Peter Guy]

Just to add my 2 cents. I bought a DSS steel BP/Wing that Tobin suggested I buy (he had asked me for my information: type of diving, size, etc.). It just fit from the get-go -- first as a single tank rig and then later, with the addition of a Deep Outdoors doubles wing (got it used) for doubles.

Later I decided I wanted a lighter bp for doubles and bought a Dive Rite aluminum plate -- put it on and then took it off and sold it. It just didn't feel good on me. Now I have a DSS kydex plate for doubles and for travel.

One thing -- the DSS plates do NOT have the deep channel that most other plates have. This is generally not an issue BUT sometimes, using doubles, the bolts are too short (especially those doubles you rent at EE in High Springs (go figure!)). I was unable to find a solution with the SS plate (except to rent doubles from another shop) but the kydex plate works just fine!

Buy DSS -- you won't be disappointed.

[SparticleBrane]

DSS -- easy decision.

Between myself, my girlfriend, and two of my other dive buddies, we have 8 wings. 6 of those are DSS: 3 Torus 49s, 2 LCD 30s, and 1 Torus 38. We're all big fans of the quality, value for money, and customer service we get from DSS.

[John_B]

I own a DSS single tank rig (stainless DSS plate + 26 lb lift Torus wing). When I don't take my gear to Florida, I rent a Halcyon plate with 30 lb Eclipse wing. Both are great, but the DSS system does everything you would need it to do, and for hundreds less than the blue H setup. In this particular case, don't assume "higher cost" = "best".

[lundysd]

I think DSS gear is incredibly solid, and their plate is far and away the nicest out there. I'm going to play devils advocate here though and recommend the Oxycheq Mach V wing. I've had mine for years, and the darn thing is bulletproof. It's incredibly streamlined in the water and packs up very nicely for traveling.

[rjack]

One thing -- the DSS plates do NOT have the deep channel that most other plates have. This is generally not an issue BUT sometimes, using doubles, the bolts are too short (especially those doubles you rent at EE in High Springs (go figure!)). I was unable to find a solution with the SS plate (except to rent doubles from another shop) but the kydex plate works just fine!

DSS plates have the flattest bend while Halcyon plates have the most. Since Extreme Exposure is a Halcyon shop (and 3,000miles from DSS) its not surprising the bolts on their doubles are shorter than most. The locals would be ripping up their TLS350s otherwise. When in Rome...

[LAJim]

I dive Halcyon and own three wings, 30#, 40#, and 60# and both steel and aluminum plates. Most of my diving is in either double 100s or 130s. I'll sometimes rig for single tank diving with the 30# wing and an STA.

On the rare occasions I've had a problem with Halcyon gear its been replaced for no charge, no questions asked.

Jim

[TobinGeorge]

DSS plates have the flattest bend while Halcyon plates have the most. Since Extreme Exposure is a Halcyon shop (and 3,000miles from DSS) its not surprising the bolts on their doubles are shorter than most. The locals would be ripping up their TLS350s otherwise. When in Rome...

This is a common mis perception. Plate bend / channel alone does not change relationship between the tank bolts and the diver's exposure suit.

Because doubles contact the backplate essentially down the edges of the plate, and the plate contacts the diver in essentially the same area, a steeply bent plate will not position Double tanks further from the diver than a flatter plate.

In other words if you take the same set of bottles and use any number of different plates the clearance between the end of the band bolts and the diver's suit will remain the same.

Steeply bent plates with deep center channels will allow shorter band bolts to be used.

If doubles are set up so that the tip of the band bolts is just below the plane of the cylinders as seen here
http://www.diveriteexpress.com/library/doubles.shtml

Then all plates will work. Cutting bolts short so only steeply bent plates will fit offers no advantage in terms of suit clearance.

In addition the DSS Delrin thumbwheels require only about .300" of the bolt project through the plate.

Steeply bent plate plates with deep center channels, when used with single tanks, will result in the single tank being offset further from the divers back.

Tobin

[rjack]

Cutting the bolts short and then fitting a plate with a pronouced channel certainly does put the ends of the bolts further away from the spine. They are shorter afterall. I have never been to EE and don't really know if they are wacking off their bolts for "suit clearance" or just because the bolts <look> too long sticking out of a deep center channel H plate. The tls350 rip thing was just my attempt at levity.

I have run into the same issue in MX. Delia had to swap doubles with us once because the ones she grabbed at the fill station had 'short bolts' and her DSS plate wouldn't fit. We fortunately had a set of longer bolted doubles and different plates so we could mix + match and she got to dive.

Just something to be aware of for travel/rentals.

[TobinGeorge]

Cutting the bolts short and then fitting a plate with a pronouced channel certainly does put the ends of the bolts further away from the spine.

You have missed my point. Changing plates has no effect on bolt to suit clearance.

Shorter bolts will of course be shorter, but there is plenty of suit clearance with bolts set up per the link in my first post.

Tobin

[rjack]

You have missed my point. Changing plates has no effect on bolt to suit clearance.

Shorter bolts will of course be shorter, but there is plenty of suit clearance with bolts set up per the link in my first post.

Tobin

Hey you're preaching to the choir, I've never had an issue either. But that doesn't mean that everyone renting doubles is thinking the same way. And if those shops/fill stations erroneous cut some (all!) bolts on the shorter side you are SOL. Mismatched bolt length and plate depth is a real issue for travelers renting doubles as Peter and others can attest.

Don't shoot the messenger.